BFD2 and Superior Drummer 2 : hardware related issues

[kimouette]

I'de like to have you guy's opnion about these 2 softwares.
I'm currently using BFD2, and as opposed to NI Battery 3 that I used to have, I feel BFD2 sounds lot more realistic and is way easier to set up.
BUT...
BFD2 requires more than my computer can offer and this is becoming really anoying : sounds that are randomly "choked" or should i say "cut off" + latency issues that appear everytime I use more than 4 instruments (cymbals, variable snare and mostly variable hi-hat) really give me a hard time!!!

I already read on BFD2 forum that the minimum requirement specified in the soft's technical sheet is not very accurate. And I can confirm it isn't!!
I currently have a Pentium Dual Core 1.73GHz, 4GB of RAM (only 3GB since I'm running Windows XP), and a M-Audio Firewire 410.
I already tried everything I could to reduce these problems :
- turned off firewall and Anti-Virus + stop automatic update
- Both my computer and my FW410 are plugged into the wall
- Played with buffersize and sample rate
- Disable every device not required by my computer when using BFD2 (network adapter+Realtek controller)
- Used Asio4all drivers

My M-audio really helps for the latency issues, but the random cymbal sounds being choked are still occuring and these are VERRRRY annoying.

Since I now have a variable hi-hat, 3 zone Yamaha style cymbals, and since I'm definately looking for the most realistic (acoustic sound-like) drum soft, I was wondering if maybe Superior Drummer would be a better option : less demanding in terms of system requirements and maybe offer even better results in terms of sound relalism ?

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

First of all, HDD is important with BFD unless you are loading everything to RAM (which you probably aren't). What kind of HDD and what bus connection does it have?

Second, is this happening when playing live or only in bounces? If only in bounces, you'll need to use BFD's "bounce mode" while you are bouncing tracks, it allows the DAW to wait as long as BFD needs to render the sounds at bounce time.

[kimouette]

I dont have any DAW installed on this computer. I have Protools on my Mac, but I currently dont need it on my PC cuz all I want to do is put my headphones on and play drums!

My HDD is probably the weakest part of my computer...
All I have is an internal HDD (120Go, 8 Mo, 5400 tr/min).

What would you recommand?

[kwas]

I dont have any DAW installed on this computer. I have Protools on my Mac, but I currently dont need it on my PC cuz all I want to do is put my headphones on and play drums!

My HDD is probably the weakest part of my computer...
All I have is an internal HDD (120Go, 8 Mo, 5400 tr/min).

What would you recommand?

Hi Kimounette,

few things in your configuration is not quite well

- M-audio should have ASIO drivers, you should use it
- if you have a secondary computer and use PC just for playing try this links
your configuration should fly once you arrange it
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm (for tweaking)
http://www.nliteos.com/ ( for custom made OS XP)
- your HDD is definetly not suitable for any kind of audio aplication
if you have SATA controler on your MB you can get nice Hitachi 500 GB or 1 TB
7200 rpm, 32 MB buffer, or if you can afford WD Cheetah 10 000 rpm even better

This is just something of the top of my mind, not complicated but very efective
Hope this helps, good luck!

[Ken Forgettable]

...I currently have a Pentium Dual Core 1.73GHz, 4GB of RAM (only 3GB since I'm running Windows XP), and a M-Audio Firewire 410.

If you use nLite this hardware will do BDF2 easily!

http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm (for tweaking)!

Great link, ta.

[elrules]

Superior 2 just loads everything into RAM so HDD is not a problem then. Give it a try. I like it much more than BFD2 and also find the sound more realistic.

[kimouette]

Thanks for all the suggestions...
I forgot to mention that I am NOT using Asio4all, I used to, but when I installed my FW410 I also installed the specific ASIO drivers that came with it.

I do have 2 laptops, but my old Mac is dying. So let's consider I only have a PC
Reformating using Nlite would be a good idea if my computer was only dedicated to audio applications, but I have to use everyday apps on it too and removing every unecessary file one by one (and knowing which ones not to remove!) would be a real puzzle for me. I wish I had money for a computer that would ONLY run BFD2 and Protools, but I cant afford that!

I'll try Superior Drummer. I read it requires a processor of atleast 1.8Ghz and I'm a little under that specification.. but I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

But I KNOW I'll have to face the HDD problem soon or later... Those WD Cheetah HDD are interesting, but internal HDD. I was hoping to find an external HDD 10000 or 15000rpm but then I need an expensive enclosure.. Let's just say I still have to search for the right one.

[kwas]

You can still turn off all the visual goodies and some services which you realy don't need and still get some power out of it. Check if you have eSATA conector on you laptop and for about 100-150 EUR you can have pretty decent external HDD which is also fast!

Good luck!

[kimouette]

I dont have an e-sata connector on my laptop

Things are getting more and more complicated as I keep searching for a solution!

I found 2 intesresting paragraphs in the BFD2 manual :

Bus traffic problems
You may find it particulatly difficult to achieve low latencies on laptops and smaller machines with limited expansion potential – no ability to install dedicated internal drives or audio interfaces. This means you may need to chain devices on the same firewire bus, for example. This often leads to dropouts at lower latencies.

It is highly recommended to run the hard drive containing BFD2’s sounds from a separate bus to the audio interface. Numerous options are available – Cardbus or ExpressCard Firewire/E-SATA cards are one option, while USB2 hard drives or audio interfaces represent another solution. Some laptops feature fast 7200 RPM internal drives – in such cases, running BFD2’s sounds from the internal drive is another potential option.

Recommended systems for low latency
If you’re serious about drumming with BFD, you must assemble a system which can get down to very playable low latencies. Audio interfaces such as those by RME and Lynx can deliver latencies as low as 64 or 32 samples (1.5ms or 0.75ms at 44.1 kHz).

A PCI or PCI-Express solution is recommended, with CardBus and ExpressCard interfaces on laptops being of similar quality.
A Firewire interface on its own bus is the next best option in our experience.
An internal 7200 RPM drive for the sounds is preferable – if this is not possible, use an external drive on its own bus (Firewire, USB2 and E-SATA are all potential options).

If you also use a good MIDI interface (PCI/PCI-Express is better than USB) and a fast computer, you can achieve a very responsive feel when playing BFD2 with e-drums.
If it is not possible to assemble a system capable of stable low latency operation, it may be best to record your performance while monitoring the sounds in your drum brain, and then afterwards route the recorded MIDI to BFD2’s sounds.

Like I said I have a laptop so having 2 internal drives is not an option.

Now 3 options are left (from the most affordable to the most expensive) :
1 - Get one internal 320Go, 7200rpm, 16Mo (80$)
2a- Get one FW800 Expresscard (80$) + a FW enclosure for HDD (about 80$) + a 10000rpm HDD (many different prices, but nothing quite cheap)
OR
based on the same idea :
2b- one FW800 expresscard + a Glyph HDD http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GT050Quad500/
3- Get a SSD (about 800$ for 320Go... forget it!!)

For some reason ($$$$), I feel more attracted to the first option! A 320Go internal HDD for 80$ should improve BFD2's speed a little. And of course since I'll install Windows once again, I'll pay attention to all useless services and apps that I can get rid of.

If I still encounter some problem with that, well I'll get rid of BFD2


Oh and I should get Superior Drummer pretty soon, I'll test it. But whatever happens I'll by a new HDD

[Ken Forgettable]

Reformating using Nlite would be a good idea if my computer was only dedicated to audio applications.

Have a dual boot system one for audio and one that goes slow.

It should be possible to have an audio XP "live cd" using BartPE, but I've not tried it.